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T-shirt
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Joined: 22 Aug 2003
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Location: Snohomish, WA USA
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 Posted: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:56:55 Post Subject: |
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| Dr. EvilCheeze wrote: | And while I agree with you T-Shirt we do need a change... problem is neither Bush NOR Kerry are a real change.
CLINTON cut the FU@K out of the military. . |
I happened to catch part of Ralph Nader's Stump speech (a televised locally event here recently) And much of what he said rang true (as does some of Michael Moore's rants) but being right, does not make you electable, nor your plans for change practical or possible to implement in four years, or 8 years. It would/will take a generation of cooperation (at a level unseen today) to make the changes needed to fix the current short term/what's in it for me, thinking in the US political system.
One would have thought 9/11 would have been the kind of event (like pearl harbor) that forced all party's to put aside, relatively unimportant minor goals and squabbles, and bring great national and international bonding and effort for change (similar to WWII) and at first it did, but that chance has been squandered, gutted, and burned by the Bush administration
And cutting the military has been a bi-partisan effort, starting before clinton, and is still ongoing today. (base closings/consolidation, force changes, and reductions)
In fact, before Afghanistan/Iraq democrats (being pork lovers) had been much criticized by the GOP for not cutting fast enough. And now it's that they cut too much?
Last edited by T-shirt on Sat, 23 Oct 2004 04:36:06; edited 1 time in total |
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Little Bruin
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dadx2mj
Happy Camper
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:08:39 Post Subject: |
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| Quote: | It would/will take a generation of cooperation (at a level unseen today) to make the changes needed to fix the current short term/what's in it for me, thinking in the US political system.
One would have thought 9/11 would have been the kind of event (like pearl harbor) that forced all party's to put aside, relatively unimportant minor goals and squabbles, and bring great national and international bonding and effort for change (similar to WWII) and at first it did, but that chance has been squandered, gutted, and burned by the Bush administration |
I have to call you on that statement. When 9/11 happened everyone and I do mean EVERYONE got behind Bush and his plans. He had the highest approval rating ever of any President. Everyone including Kerry backed and agreed with his plan. Now here we are and things have not gone as we wanted, they never have and probably never will. So now Kerry and all his lefty followers are pointing the finger and wanting to make Bush take all the blame but when the decision was made and when it was a popular one they were right there behind him agreeing with him. So in my eyes they share in as much as the blame as Bush and his administration because they backed and voted in approval of it then. Talk about a two faced flip flopping.... |
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NewAwakenings
Your Worst Nightmare
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
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Location: In your nightmares
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| Posted: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:20:18 Post Subject: |
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| dadx2mj wrote: | | Quote: | It would/will take a generation of cooperation (at a level unseen today) to make the changes needed to fix the current short term/what's in it for me, thinking in the US political system.
One would have thought 9/11 would have been the kind of event (like pearl harbor) that forced all party's to put aside, relatively unimportant minor goals and squabbles, and bring great national and international bonding and effort for change (similar to WWII) and at first it did, but that chance has been squandered, gutted, and burned by the Bush administration |
I have to call you on that statement. When 9/11 happened everyone and I do mean EVERYONE got behind Bush and his plans. He had the highest approval rating ever of any President. Everyone including Kerry backed and agreed with his plan. Now here we are and things have not gone as we wanted, they never have and probably never will. So now Kerry and all his lefty followers are pointing the finger and wanting to make Bush take all the blame but when the decision was made and when it was a popular one they were right there behind him agreeing with him. So in my eyes they share in as much as the blame as Bush and his administration because they backed and voted in approval of it then. Talk about a two faced flip flopping.... |
Now I have to call you on that Dadx.... you are right Bush had a 98% approval rate when he went into the war.. that because he LIED about his reasoning for it... once the truth actually came out is when his approval rate went down, and when Kerry changed his mind.. and Kerry wasn't the only one might I add... I mean who wouldn't back a war that we were told was because of 9/11... Bush was just blowing smoke up our a$$....
However I do agree with EC.... I am not really for Kerry either... he is just the lesser of two evils for me... it scares the hell out of me to think of what the next 4 years will bring if Bush is re-elected...
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T-shirt
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| Posted: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 04:31:43 Post Subject: |
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| dadx2mj wrote: | | Quote: | It would/will take a generation of cooperation (at a level unseen today) to make the changes needed to fix the current short term/what's in it for me, thinking in the US political system.
One would have thought 9/11 would have been the kind of event (like pearl harbor) that forced all party's to put aside, relatively unimportant minor goals and squabbles, and bring great national and international bonding and effort for change (similar to WWII) and at first it did, but that chance has been squandered, gutted, and burned by the Bush administration |
I have to call you on that statement. When 9/11 happened everyone and I do mean EVERYONE got behind Bush and his plans. He had the highest approval rating ever of any President. Everyone including Kerry backed and agreed with his plan. Now here we are and things have not gone as we wanted, they never have and probably never will. So now Kerry and all his lefty followers are pointing the finger and wanting to make Bush take all the blame but when the decision was made and when it was a popular one they were right there behind him agreeing with him. So in my eyes they share in as much as the blame as Bush and his administration because they backed and voted in approval of it then. Talk about a two faced flip flopping.... |
True everyone agreed that something had to be done about Al Quad, so we went to Afghanistan, so far so good, fought hard and were in the process of cleaning up when Bush (et al) decided to shift to Iraq.
first reason stated "he tried to kill my daddy"
that didn't fly so after a few weeks "evidence" of a WMD program began to surface, rushed to congress and they said try the UN, after the UN didn't bite, more "evidence" surfaced and congress (foolishly) swallowed the bait and authorized action, back to the UN, it still didn't fly, and bush said 'Go, go go' Now doubts about the evidence started to surface, but we when anyway, while the buildup was under way, One by one major allies were publicly ridiculed for not diving in head first with us, US citizens and congresspersons who questioned the sudden need to ignore the UN and go to war, were ridiculed and called "unpatriotic" and soft on terror. and in retrospect They were right!
Yes, by 9/12 we had the sympathy and support of the most of the world and if used wisely , we could have acomplished alot, but bit by bit Bush pushed back the advise of friends and partners throughout the world, Ignored new evidence that refuted the old, and pushed ahead, and now instead of 98% support he's in the 40% range, not flip-flopping, wiseing up.
Even within his own party the concern about Bush's actions have gone from doubt to opposition.
Scott McConnell, executive editor of The American Conservative magazine
wrote last week "Bush has behaved like a caricature of what a right-wing president is supposed to be, and his continuation in office will discredit any sort of conservatism for generations........During the campaign, few have paid attention to how much the Bush presidency has degraded the image of the United States in the world.....These sentiments mean that as long as Bush is president, we have no real allies in the world, no friends to help us dig out from the Iraq quagmire. " and much more. In fact this right wing flag bearer has now publicly endorsed Kerry, not because they agree on much, but because he realises Kerry's worst day will damage America less than george Bush's best one. (interesting, well written editorial, worth reading)
dadx2mj I know it's hard to change your mind in this politically polorized time, but think carefully about your vote, this isn't about Republicians or Democrats anymore, this is about freeing America from the mistake that George W Bush represents. I won't call you a flip-flopper, and I'll kick NA's a$$ if she does.
I'm a bleeding heart liberal, and I approved this message. |
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dadx2mj
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BeerCheeze
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Joined: 14 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:24:54 Post Subject: |
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| NewAwakenings wrote: | | However I do agree with EC.... I am not really for Kerry either... he is just the lesser of two evils for me... it scares the hell out of me to think of what the next 4 years will bring if Bush is re-elected... |
See that's my problem... I'm more scared of what Kerry will do then Bush. I honestly feel that Kerry will end up getting more people killed and will leave the world in a bigger disarray than letting Bush finish the job.
My biggest fear is that Kerry won't follow through and finish Iraq, he'll pull out troops, and let the insurgents/terrorist gain more control of the middle east. Then we are really REALLY in trouble... civilians will be dying all over the world.... car bombs, hi-jacked planes, and possibly the thing that scares me the most.... a biological weapon.
What I think most of you don't realize is how easy a Biological weapon is to deliver. Think about this.... you have all these whack jobs that are willing to strap a bomb on them and go blow up kids. Now think about that same whack job being given an option to fly on a plane around Europe for a few days.... all while being infected with a highly contagious disease. Because of the way airplane ventilation systems work, most of the people on the plane will be come infected. And because generally the gestation period of some of these know disease is in the area of 72 hours prior to symptoms being shown. Then all the people that he comes in contact to with now are flying to other parts of the world (including the US)... and all of the sudden... the US and a large part of the world has a major out break of these deadly disease.
Far fetched??? Not really.... remember we are dealing with people that have shown NO respect for any life (be it American, European, Catholic, Muslim, etc... they rationalize any death to make them think they are doing `God's' work). So if you leave these people in charge of any large areas..... we and the rest of the world could become screwed VERY quickly.
So this is why I'm scared of changing Bush for Kerry.... Kerry to me has proved that he is not loyal to the Military, and right now we need a Commander-n-Chief that is loyal to them.
But.... KNIGHT FOR PRESIDENT!!!! |
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knight0334
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| Posted: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:35:44 Post Subject: |
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Theres a nomination for me..
First thing I'd do is, finish up Iraq. I'd dump another 500,000 soldiers, 300 more tanks and go door to door. I would push them right through the trouble makers and kill everyone of them. then I'd pull the troops after government, utilities and security are back in place.. Then I'd leave a note on every pole, door and wall stating that if another "incident occurs, we will nuke the entire country.
taxes: the poor and middle class will get a tax cut, but the rich and well-to-do companies will take up the slack-AND THEN SOME.
foreign aid: no money will leave this country unless something of equal value is brought back in.
outsourcing: companies that do that will no longer be able to do business in the USA, or sell any products here.
law & rights: the Constitution will be honored as it is written.
those on deathrow will have a third party review their cases, if found that everything is in order, they will be publicly excuted in the manner inwhich they killed.
drug dealers will be executed on the spot.
the government will stop barrowing from Social Security.
once out of office, all "former" elected officials will lose pensions and perks. ..they dont deserve them-they weren't elected into a job, they were elected to a duty.
military will get a moderate increase in funding to protect us from terror. same with intelligence.
more to come on my standings... gotta run.. |
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Little Bruin
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T-shirt
Rated XXX
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
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Location: Snohomish, WA USA
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| Posted: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:07:34 Post Subject: |
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| dadx2mj wrote: | Wait a second NA ...He lied? No he had faulty intelligence and so did everyone else who had a say in it . Fault him for that yes but you also have to fault Kerry and everybody else involved as well. Plus the intelligence may have not been at that wrong. They have found some chemical weapons but only in small amounts. It is very possible the mass stockpiles if they did exist went to Syria or elsewhere. It is not like they did not know we were coming.
TShirt you have some interesting view and not without some merit. I still dont buy it all. I never heard Bush say anything about "He tried to kill my Daddy" Others have said that was his reasoning but I never heard that from Bush. Most of the other countries that have turned against us did so because they were in bed with Iraq and because of the war lost big time $$$$$ in oil contracts. I am sure if Kerry would have been in office he would have catered to them and claimed he had built a better alliance. I agree with Bush on this issues....screw them lets do what is best for us for a change. |
He lied, or he is unable to determine who is telling him the truth, which is something a president MUST be able to do. and if in doubt find a new source. Now GWB obviously can't do all the fact checking himself, so one or more of his top 8 or 10 advisor's, screwed up, and the rest failed to tell him to slow down and check again.
however none of them has been fired, and the policies that put us in Iraq have not changed, now "it's we were wrong on WMD, but we have new justification, Saddam was a bad man" (Congress never would have authorized the war based on that)
about "He tried to kill my Daddy" (sorry, actual quote was "After all, this is the guy who tried to kill my dad."
)
We'll assume CNN reported this accurately
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/27/bush.war.talk/
....screw them lets do what is best for us for a change. I don't think any nation can "go it alone" anymore, not by withdrawing from, ignoring or taking on the world..
I do agree that all the allied nations have self serving goals (as do we) but a leader/statesman/good president must find a middle ground, some common goal that most can agree on or at least live with and work with that.
As EC points out'big iron' is probably not the major threat at this point, more likely a handful of fanatics could infect the world. This is something that all countries can see as a threat and all would work towards detecting/preventing/containing with the proper leadership.
What's best for us, in the long run, is fostering global cooperation, even if it means putting up with some minor posturing/BS in the short run.
and the bush adminstration has shown no sign of recognizing this, let alone the ability to follow through. |
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NewAwakenings
Your Worst Nightmare
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1516
Location: In your nightmares
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| Posted: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:46:59 Post Subject: |
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| Dr. EvilCheeze wrote: | | NewAwakenings wrote: | | However I do agree with EC.... I am not really for Kerry either... he is just the lesser of two evils for me... it scares the hell out of me to think of what the next 4 years will bring if Bush is re-elected... |
See that's my problem... I'm more scared of what Kerry will do then Bush. I honestly feel that Kerry will end up getting more people killed and will leave the world in a bigger disarray than letting Bush finish the job.
My biggest fear is that Kerry won't follow through and finish Iraq, he'll pull out troops, and let the insurgents/terrorist gain more control of the middle east. Then we are really REALLY in trouble... civilians will be dying all over the world.... car bombs, hi-jacked planes, and possibly the thing that scares me the most.... a biological weapon.
What I think most of you don't realize is how easy a Biological weapon is to deliver. Think about this.... you have all these whack jobs that are willing to strap a bomb on them and go blow up kids. Now think about that same whack job being given an option to fly on a plane around Europe for a few days.... all while being infected with a highly contagious disease. Because of the way airplane ventilation systems work, most of the people on the plane will be come infected. And because generally the gestation period of some of these know disease is in the area of 72 hours prior to symptoms being shown. Then all the people that he comes in contact to with now are flying to other parts of the world (including the US)... and all of the sudden... the US and a large part of the world has a major out break of these deadly disease.
Far fetched??? Not really.... remember we are dealing with people that have shown NO respect for any life (be it American, European, Catholic, Muslim, etc... they rationalize any death to make them think they are doing `God's' work). So if you leave these people in charge of any large areas..... we and the rest of the world could become screwed VERY quickly.
So this is why I'm scared of changing Bush for Kerry.... Kerry to me has proved that he is not loyal to the Military, and right now we need a Commander-n-Chief that is loyal to them.
But.... KNIGHT FOR PRESIDENT!!!! |
Sorry I think Bush is the one who will get us all killed!!! Hell he dodged his duty in the service.. he definately isnt the one I want as my president!! Give me someone that who has actually killed someone face to face... killing someone has a way of humbling a man.... If Bush is re-elected for another 4 years.. everyone might as well get them some hish limit credit cards and max them all out cause we wont be around in 4 years to pay for them anyway... Bush will blow up the world with us in it!!!
_________________
I am the Spam Queen...
OOO Pleeease... Like you were the first person in this place to have him... we've passed him around like a Joint at a frat party! - Dr. EvilCheeze |
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BeerCheeze
*hick*
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Posts: 9285
Location: At the Bar
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| Posted: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:16:19 Post Subject: |
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| NewAwakenings wrote: | | If Bush is re-elected for another 4 years.. everyone might as well get them some hish limit credit cards and max them all out cause we wont be around in 4 years to pay for them anyway... Bush will blow up the world with us in it!!! |
Boy I hate to say this.... but that has to be the most emotional, uneducated, unfactual statement I have ever seen made. Serisouly... I don't care for Bush either... and I dis-like Kerry even more... but NEITHER of them will "blow up the world with us in it". You need to quit watching Micheal Moore. |
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